New O2 Owner: Help requested

[Dr. Anton T. Squeegee]

Fellow techie-folk,

I have become the proud(?) owner of an SGI O2 workstation. My goal
is to set it up to do video editing, effects, etc., and then transfer
the final result to, say, a recordable DVD. The unit was purchased at
Boeing Surplus.

I've had lots of experience with Suns, PCs, and Compaq servers, but
SGI's are relatively new to me. I know I need to install a hard drive (I
have the sled, fortunately), but I'm uncertain if SGI's need specific
firmware on said drive to accept it. The connector looks like a standard
SCA-type 80-position SCSI, so I was going to try a generic IBM UltraStar
or something similar, but who am I to know for sure?

I don't have distro media for IRIX, either, nor do I have any idea
what I'm supposed to use, software-wise, for video work. I had heard, at
one point, that ownership of an SGI system confers a user license for
IRIX -- True? Myth? Other?

Heck, I'm not even sure where to find the serial number on the
silly thing! Is it the same as the Ethernet MAC address?

Assistance and advice appreciated.

Thanks much.

[Gary Heston]

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
Fellow techie-folk,
I have become the proud(?) owner of an SGI O2 workstation. My goal
is to set it up to do video editing, effects, etc., and then transfer
the final result to, say, a recordable DVD. The unit was purchased at
Boeing Surplus.

Congratulations! They're capable little systems.

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
I've had lots of experience with Suns, PCs, and Compaq servers, but
SGI's are relatively new to me. I know I need to install a hard drive (I
have the sled, fortunately), but I'm uncertain if SGI's need specific
firmware on said drive to accept it. The connector looks like a standard
SCA-type 80-position SCSI, so I was going to try a generic IBM UltraStar
or something similar, but who am I to know for sure?

No special firmware needed, just make sure the drive isn't too thick.

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
I don't have distro media for IRIX, either, nor do I have any idea
what I'm supposed to use, software-wise, for video work. I had heard, at
one point, that ownership of an SGI system confers a user license for
IRIX -- True? Myth? Other?

The license doesn't just go with the hardware; the seller has to do a
transfer document, and SGI has to sign off on it. However, virtually
nobody has been able to get a seller (who held the license) to do the
paperwork, and I've seen a comment that SGI has never signed off on any
of them. SGI also does not sell licenses for IRIX, it's like they're
pretending that there is no used equipment market other than authorized
resellers.

I did have a SGI rep tell me they didn't care about home users, but when
"having somthing in writing would be good" was mentioned, he seemed
puzzled as to why anyone would want that.

Last time I checked, you could buy an IRIX media set from SGI--for $1200.
(Same media set with a system was only $600.) This doesn't include any
type of license, though.

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
Heck, I'm not even sure where to find the serial number on the
silly thing! Is it the same as the Ethernet MAC address?

Yes. Any "node-locked" software is tied to the MAC address.

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
Assistance and advice appreciated.

Media sets can usually be found on eBay.


Gary

[Dr. Anton T. Squeegee]

In article <***@corp.supernews.com>, ***@hiwaay.net
(known to some as Gary Heston) scribed...

Post by Gary Heston

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
Fellow techie-folk,
I have become the proud(?) owner of an SGI O2 workstation. My goal
is to set it up to do video editing, effects, etc., and then transfer
the final result to, say, a recordable DVD. The unit was purchased at
Boeing Surplus.

Congratulations! They're capable little systems.

Thank you! ;-)

<snippety>

Post by Gary Heston
The license doesn't just go with the hardware; the seller has to do a
transfer document, and SGI has to sign off on it. However, virtually
nobody has been able to get a seller (who held the license) to do the
paperwork, and I've seen a comment that SGI has never signed off on any
of them. SGI also does not sell licenses for IRIX, it's like they're
pretending that there is no used equipment market other than authorized
resellers.

The term 'Delusional' comes to mind...

Post by Gary Heston
I did have a SGI rep tell me they didn't care about home users, but when
"having somthing in writing would be good" was mentioned, he seemed
puzzled as to why anyone would want that.
Last time I checked, you could buy an IRIX media set from SGI--for $1200.
(Same media set with a system was only $600.) This doesn't include any
type of license, though.

Eeeyowch! Methinks I'll poke around on Greed-bay, or find another
system owner.

Any suggestions on video editing software for the thing?

Thanks much.

[Emmanuel Florac]

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
Any suggestions on video editing software for the thing?

There is a very simple one, MovieMaker, shipping with IRIX. It's very
usable IMHO. There is also Adobe Premiere 4.2, which is much better and
shipped with quite a lot of O2s. Some other very high-end editing software
exist too, such as Jaleo, Avid Illusion, Alias Composer... but are for
compositing and special effects more than editing.

[Atro Tossavainen]

Post by Emmanuel Florac
There is a very simple one, MovieMaker, shipping with IRIX. It's very
usable IMHO.

I have a simple question.

I've got video I captured on the O2, but my O2 has a hardware problem
in that the left audio input is fried.

I've also got the audio for the same that I recorded on a DAT and
have already transferred to the system so I have it as a file.

Of course these are concerts broadcast on TV where it's really quite
important that the audio is OK in the end result that I, too, wish to
print to DVD...

(Yeah. Get a recording DVD instead. Can't be arsed. Already have an
O2.)

In order to do anything sensible with this, I need to import both
files into an application and align them so that the sound is in sync
with the picture. The sound starts before the picture does, so I need
to start the video maybe 40 or so seconds into the sound.

So far, I have not been very successful in doing this with MovieMaker.
Maybe I'm just clueless, but cut-n-pasting the entire video file from
0 to wherever the respective section is in the audio is very slow and
I don't seem to have a way of matching it up properly, so I have to
guess, and guess again, and wait for a long time each time.

There's got to be an easier way. Anybody care to educate me?

[Emmanuel Florac]

Post by Atro Tossavainen
There's got to be an easier way. Anybody care to educate me?

Don't you have any event in both video and sound that you may use to
resync everything? Explosion, crashing cymbal, whatever?

[Atro Tossavainen]

Post by Emmanuel Florac
Don't you have any event in both video and sound that you may use to
resync everything? Explosion, crashing cymbal, whatever?

Oh, plenty. And since I have partial audio in the video file (one
channel only), it should be even easier. I don't see a way to match
up the files in MovieMaker, which is what I was wondering about.

[Emmanuel Florac]

I don't see a way to match up the files
in MovieMaker, which is what I was wondering about.

Oh, I see. moviemaker unfortunately isn't really made for precision
editing I guess...

[mapesdhs]

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
Eeeyowch! Methinks I'll poke around on Greed-bay, or find another
system owner.

If you get stuck, drop me a line.

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
Any suggestions on video editing software for the thing?

Lots of tools come with it, main one is MovieMaker. You should use a
reasonably
recent 6.5.x version in order to have minimum bugs (6.5.22 or later
IMO). There
are capture and playback tools aswell, but for capturing video it is
better to
use the command line tool dmrecord. Many other tools included aswell.

What is the hinv output on your system btw? ie. what CPU, RAM does it
have?
And is it fitted with the A/V board? (essential!) You can tell because
the full
AV board has a camera socket at the back for the O2Cam digital camera.

Ian.

[mapesdhs]

The license doesn't just go with the hardware; ...

Yes it does, at least in Europe. Wouldn't surprise me if US laws are
up the spout on this though.

If you ask SGI officially, they'll be a pain because they've never had
a mechanism for coping with hobbyists. Privately, they can be very
helpul,
eg. years ago SGI UK said I could put 6.5 on non-profit/academic
systems.

SGI Austria once tried to sell IRIX with 60% off, but SGI US said
stop.
Stupid marketing zoids...

of them. SGI also does not sell licenses for IRIX, it's like they're
pretending that there is no used equipment market other than authorized
resellers.

It's all a pile of hokum you know. Some US dealers ship 2nd-hand units
out
with the latest OS anyway, including a few I know who even supply SGI
with
SGI systems (wierd huh?).

Last time I checked, you could buy an IRIX media set from SGI--for $1200.
(Same media set with a system was only $600.) This doesn't include any
type of license, though.

Doesn't need one. If a system was shipped with 6.5.x, then you can
install
6.5.x on it.

I have plenty of orig media sets, can do them for 40 or 50 depending
on
revision, and can include various extra CDs if required.

Ian.

[Gary Heston]

Post by mapesdhs

The license doesn't just go with the hardware; ...

Yes it does, at least in Europe. Wouldn't surprise me if US laws are
up the spout on this though.

We do not have a law requiring the license to automatically follow
the hardware, no. The license has to be transferred, which has to be
initiated by the license holder and then signed off on by SGI. Aside
from the obvious problems with getting a large business to do the
form in the first place, systems obtained through bankruptcy auctions
or which have been trashpicked effectively have no way to do the
transfer.

Further, I've seen one report of someone sending a signed transfer
form to SGI, and never getting a resonse, much less the form. So, SGI
isn't interested in anything to do with the secondary market, other
than selling support contracts for 100x the value of the hardware.

Post by mapesdhs
If you ask SGI officially, they'll be a pain because they've never had
a mechanism for coping with hobbyists. Privately, they can be very
helpul,
eg. years ago SGI UK said I could put 6.5 on non-profit/academic
systems.

It's not just hobbiests; it's anyone other than the original purchaser.

Post by mapesdhs
SGI Austria once tried to sell IRIX with 60% off, but SGI US said
stop.
Stupid marketing zoids...

[ ... ]

Remember the "update support plan" they tried a few years ago? $500/year
PER SYSTEM for the opportunity to download current update files? I might
have signed up for $100/year to receive actual CDs for however many
systems I maintained off-support, but $500/system with no media was
insane. Did anyone ever actually sign up to that?


Gary

[Walter Roberson]

Post by Gary Heston
We do not have a law requiring the license to automatically follow
the hardware, no. The license has to be transferred, which has to be
initiated by the license holder and then signed off on by SGI.
Further, I've seen one report of someone sending a signed transfer
form to SGI, and never getting a resonse, much less the form. So, SGI
isn't interested in anything to do with the secondary market, other
than selling support contracts for 100x the value of the hardware.

SGI doesn't have to sign it off: the new owner has to agree
in writing that they will follow SGI's licence, but SGI doesn't have
to approve.

I'd have to have another look at the license to see if SGI even
has to be notified; of course if it came to a matter of support
then SGI would want proof of transfer, at which point you would
present the chain of ownership transfers.

[BG]

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
I have become the proud(?) owner of an SGI O2 workstation. My goal
is to set it up to do video editing, effects, etc., and then transfer
the final result to, say, a recordable DVD.

I have a couple of O2s (and a Fuel and Octane2 and an Indy) so here
is a few pointers.

1. Unless you have the R12K O2 at 300+ MHz, it is going to be a pain
to use the machine for anything else but for IRIX shell programming
and maybe some light web hosting. Definitely a huge pain for any
visual workstation work. These are machines from 1996, on par with
Pentium Pro, keep that in mind.

2. Forget about video editing in Premiere 4.2, it is way too slow and
cannot output in any modern video format. If you have money to spend
for specialized hardware, Discreet made the most professional video
suite (Flame, Smoke, Combustion, Flint, Effect, etc etc). They are
owned by AUtodesk now and do not work with IRIX anymore.

3. There has never been a DVD-R for O2s from SGI. The latest O2+
machines (purple) shipped with DVD-ROM, and that was a huge advance
compared to the 4x CDROMS the earliest ones shipped with. Some people
have tried using an external SCSI DVD-R or even an internal one, to
various success.

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
I've had lots of experience with Suns, PCs, and Compaq servers, but
SGI's are relatively new to me. I know I need to install a hard drive (I
have the sled, fortunately), but I'm uncertain if SGI's need specific
firmware on said drive to accept it. The connector looks like a standard
SCA-type 80-position SCSI, so I was going to try a generic IBM UltraStar
or something similar, but who am I to know for sure?

4. Any 1'' SCA-2 80 pin drive will work

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
I don't have distro media for IRIX, either, nor do I have any idea
what I'm supposed to use, software-wise, for video work. I had heard, at
one point, that ownership of an SGI system confers a user license for
IRIX -- True? Myth? Other?

5. Myth. The license for IRIX is the machine you purchased DIRECTLY
from SGI. Everything else is gray area. Check ebay, or if you are so
inclined, the many P2Ps. Video work will be hard on this machines. A
modern Mac or PC under $999 will do magnitudes of a better job , both
in speed and ease of use.

So why do I have so many SGIs? Because they are pretty :) And IRIX is
the best UNIX ever made. And I always wanted to have SGIs when I was a
CS freshman 10 years ago.

[mapesdhs]

Post by BG
1. Unless you have the R12K O2 at 300+ MHz, it is going to be a pain
to use the machine for anything else but for IRIX shell programming

I agree a good CPU helps, but even a low-spec O2 can capture video,
etc.
Much of the video stuff is done by ICE, not the main CPU. RAM and a
good
disk can be just as important.

Post by BG
visual workstation work. These are machines from 1996, on par with
Pentium Pro, keep that in mind.

That's a crazy comparison. Not remotely like a PC of that era in any
way
whatsoever. O2 has great strengths; it has weaknesses too. A good
system
for video, not good for running FireFox. Unless his needs are beyond
what
the supplied and freeware tools can offer, he should be fine.

Post by BG
2. Forget about video editing in Premiere 4.2, it is way too slow and
cannot output in any modern video format. ...

Doesn't matter, it's more sensible to stick to the native formats and
convert using a PC anwyay (see earlier post).

Post by BG
suite (Flame, Smoke, Combustion, Flint, Effect, etc etc). They are
owned by AUtodesk now and do not work with IRIX anymore.

There's also Jaleo and Avid, but hard to find. I have an original Avid
O2
but I ain't selling it cheap. ;D

Post by BG
inclined, the many P2Ps. Video work will be hard on this machines. A
modern Mac or PC under $999 will do magnitudes of a better job , both
in speed and ease of use.

Except when the PC crashes because you tried to do something else
while
the video task was running, or one of a hundred other ways a PC can
piss
you off.

Ok, I'm ribbing here a bit, but I tire of this constant O2 bashing
that
I see these days. They can be great machines if used apporpriately.
One
can do a lot with the supplied tools, given their limits, but it does
require a bit of effort to learn the pros and cons involved, the
tricks
to get the most out of them, etc.; but hey, that's half the fun of
meddling with unique hardware.

Post by BG
So why do I have so many SGIs? Because they are pretty :) And IRIX is
the best UNIX ever made. And I always wanted to have SGIs when I was a
CS freshman 10 years ago.

Hear hear. Never though I'd end up with 200 of the ruddy things
though. :D:D

Ian.

[mapesdhs]

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
I have become the proud(?) owner of an SGI O2 workstation. My goal
is to set it up to do video editing, effects, etc., and then transfer
the final result to, say, a recordable DVD. The unit was purchased at
Boeing Surplus.

If you're not going to be doing complicated editing effects, then O2
is very good
for this. I saw other posts slagging off O2 in this respect, but
that's unfair and not
a complete picture. It depends on what you want to do. If you want
sophisticated
effects then you'd need professional software, in which case a PC
would be better,
but for basic stuff O2 is very cool, ie. the supplied movie tools,
Premiere and others.

If a task can use O2's acceleration hardware (ICE) then it's good. If
not, then it'll
be slow.

Thus, I use a combination: O2 and Indigo2 IMPACT for video capture and
editing,
and a PC for final conversion to DivX or MPEG2/4 (use TMPEGEnc with
the Morgan
MJPEG codec, works very well). This is perfect for me because I only
want to
do mostly cut & paste, join, fade-in, fade-out, and that's about it.
Well, I could do
other things too with the sw tools available, but I don't need to.
Note that the command
line tools (eg. dmrecord) are more reliable than their GUI equivalents
(eg. MediaRecorder).
There are also various other tricks and things that make doing video
with O2 more
reliable. If you intend to use VHS sources, it also helps a lot if you
have a TBC booster
to clean up the signal.

Btw, if you connect a DVD player to an O2 and the output to a VCR, the
signal is
passed straight through, stripping off any Macrovision nonsense. No
need to even login. :D

See my Indigo2 Buyers Guide for some example video capture settings
which are also
the best to use for O2 capture.

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
have the sled, fortunately), but I'm uncertain if SGI's need specific
firmware on said drive to accept it. The connector looks like a standard
SCA-type 80-position SCSI, so I was going to try a generic IBM UltraStar
or something similar, but who am I to know for sure?

Don't worry, any 1" 80pin SCA should be fine. If your O2 has a good
CPU, you would
benefit to some extent from a 15K rpm drive if you can get one.
Otherwise, get a 10K minium.

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
I don't have distro media for IRIX, either, nor do I have any idea
what I'm supposed to use, software-wise, for video work. I had heard, at
one point, that ownership of an SGI system confers a user license for
IRIX -- True? Myth? Other?

Licensing on SGIs is a mess. Whatever the official policies may be,
it's broken even
by SGI employees. I was told any SGI is licensed to use whatever OS it
was shipped
with, plus any updates (at least in Europe), ie. the media is
irrelevant, even if it's CDR.
But if you want original media I have an original boxed 6.5 kit I can
sell for 40 UKP
(email me). Got quite a few, not had a chance to add them to my site
yet.

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
Heck, I'm not even sure where to find the serial number on the
silly thing! Is it the same as the Ethernet MAC address?

On the back, bottom right, and yes.

Post by Dr. Anton T. Squeegee
Assistance and advice appreciated.

See:

http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/o2/

Should help somewhat, or feel free to email me any more detailed
questions.

Cheers! :)

Ian.

SGI Depot: http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/sgidepot/
Email: ***@yahoo.com (eBay ID: mapesdhs)
Backup email (send copy to this too): ***@blueyonder.co.uk
Home: [phone]

SGI/Future Technology/N64: http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/