SCSI interface in Indigo 2

[DoN. Nichols]

First -- is there anyone still here? A few days ago, I read everything
relating to my just acquired Indigo 2 (teal, with the R8000 CPU FWIW),
and then did a catchup.

Nothing appears to have been posted since.

Anyway -- my question:

The internal SCSI connector to the sleds is the same physical
connector as the newer SCA drives, but (from probing from one of a pair
of sleds which I got via eBay), the power pins at least don't seem to
match the SCA pinout. Did I probe incorrectly, or is this truly the
case?

Are sleds made which will accept SCA drives? (I guess that I
could use a bridge card to get one in.) Somehow, the 4GB capacity
(which seems to be the maximum 3.5" 50-pin SCSI drive) seems a bit too
small (though I do still have some of them). How much does a full
install actually need?

Granted, I have been playing with Sun Blade 2000 systems with a
pair of 73GB Fibre Channel drives, and Solaris 10 installed, but I keep
expecting Irix to need more space than a 4GB drive.

What is the latest version of Irix which will install on a
Indigo 2 with the R8000 CPU? I do understand that it is an unusual, and
relatively rare CPU, so I don't really expect the latest Irix to still
support it.

And I find that the open source OS's (linux, BSD, etc) don't
support that particular CPU (again, because it is rare).

I don't expect much performance from this (except perhaps in
floating point math), but I am interested to see what the graphics card
(framebuffer) can do. This is the triple-decker one with the 13W3, the
DIN connector for 3D goggles, and a tiny coax connector for who knows
what.

So -- if anyone is still here, can I get the pinout of the
internal SCSI connector -- and find out whether there are sleds for the
SCA interface drives.

If the pinout is as different as I suspect, I would expect
plugging a drive directly into the connector to blow at least the drive,
and perhaps the SCSI controller as well.

Thanks much,
DoN.

[Erik Baigar]

Post by DoN. Nichols
First -- is there anyone still here?

Yes - and still enjoying an I2 for dayly private use.

Post by DoN. Nichols
of sleds which I got via eBay), the power pins at least don't seem to
match the SCA pinout. Did I probe incorrectly, or is this truly the
case?

As far as I know, this is true - you will need an adapter.

Post by DoN. Nichols
Are sleds made which will accept SCA drives? (I guess that I
could use a bridge card to get one in.)

Yes, in my I2 there are two SCA drives with SCA->50 bridge and it
works fine.

Post by DoN. Nichols
(which seems to be the maximum 3.5" 50-pin SCSI drive) seems a bit too
small (though I do still have some of them). How much does a full
install actually need?

My 8G root drive containing lots of freeware is 80% full. Thus I'd
recommend
8G or 18G for everything except data.

Post by DoN. Nichols
pair of 73GB Fibre Channel drives, and Solaris 10 installed, but I keep
expecting Irix to need more space than a 4GB drive.

Plain IRIX my well fit in 4GB, but if you plan to install freeware or
other software, you are correct.

Post by DoN. Nichols
What is the latest version of Irix which will install on a
Indigo 2 with the R8000 CPU? I do understand that it is an unusual, and
relatively rare CPU, so I don't really expect the latest Irix to still
support it.

I do not know about R8000, but because of graphics I think 6.5.22 is
the last version officially supporting I2.

A great web page regarding the SGI-stuff is the following - maybe this
will give you more and better hints than mine:

http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/sgidepot/

Best regards,

Erik.

[DoN. Nichols]

Post by Erik Baigar

Post by DoN. Nichols
First -- is there anyone still here?

Yes - and still enjoying an I2 for dayly private use.

Great. I see a total of four followups to my questions, of
which yours is the first, so I don't know what the others have said,
yet.

Post by Erik Baigar

Post by DoN. Nichols
of sleds which I got via eBay), the power pins at least don't seem to
match the SCA pinout. Did I probe incorrectly, or is this truly the
case?

As far as I know, this is true - you will need an adapter.

O.K. What I had feared.

Post by Erik Baigar

Post by DoN. Nichols
Are sleds made which will accept SCA drives? (I guess that I
could use a bridge card to get one in.)

Yes, in my I2 there are two SCA drives with SCA->50 bridge and it
works fine.

Great! I know that I have at least one such bridge stored away
from when I was putting SCA drives in Sun sandwichboxes, before I got
the unipacks and multipacks.

Of course, with the bridge, I am limited to SCSI IDs 0-7 (and the
system grabs 0 anyway) -- but there are only three slots on the internal
bus, so no problem there.

Post by Erik Baigar

Post by DoN. Nichols
(which seems to be the maximum 3.5" 50-pin SCSI drive) seems a bit too
small (though I do still have some of them). How much does a full
install actually need?

My 8G root drive containing lots of freeware is 80% full. Thus I'd
recommend
8G or 18G for everything except data.

O.K. I've got quite a few 18GB SCA drives retired when my Suns
started using Fibre Channel.

Post by Erik Baigar

Post by DoN. Nichols
pair of 73GB Fibre Channel drives, and Solaris 10 installed, but I keep
expecting Irix to need more space than a 4GB drive.

Plain IRIX my well fit in 4GB, but if you plan to install freeware or
other software, you are correct.

*Lots* of freeware -- as always. :-) But that can go in
/usr/local which could be a second drive anyway.

Post by Erik Baigar

Post by DoN. Nichols
What is the latest version of Irix which will install on a
Indigo 2 with the R8000 CPU? I do understand that it is an unusual, and
relatively rare CPU, so I don't really expect the latest Irix to still
support it.

I do not know about R8000, but because of graphics I think 6.5.22 is
the last version officially supporting I2.

O.K. That is a starting point.

Post by Erik Baigar
A great web page regarding the SGI-stuff is the following - maybe this
http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/sgidepot/

I've actually read some of it, and found it quite useful. But
there are chunks of it yet to visit.

Thanks much,
DoN.

[josehill]

We're out here, though a lot of the SGI hobbyist crowd also hangs out
at forums.nekochan.net.

Anyway, an older nekochan thread had at least some info. I'm not sure
if it's enough to answer your question, but it might get you started
-
http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?p=116452#p116452

IRIX 6.5.22 is the last version of IRIX that supports the Indigo2. In
practice, you'll want a minimum of 128 MB to run IRIX 6.5.x, but
you'll be happier with 192 MB, 256 MB or more. If you have 128 MB or
less of RAM, and you don't plan to add more, you might be happier with
IRIX 5.3 or 6.2.

Depending on exactly what you will use your Indigo2 for, a 4 GB hard
drive may be enough. You can easily fit a default IRIX 6.5.x
installation on a 4 GB drive, and you can even shoehorn 6.5.x onto a 2
GB drive. If you plan to work with images or try a bunch of software
(lots of open source stuff in the Nekoware repository -
http://www.nekochan.net/what-is-nekowar.html ), you'll want to add
either a second drive or a larger drive. (If you run IRIX 6.2 or 5.3,
you can get fairly current open source software for those versions at
the tgcware repository - http://jupiterrise.com/tgcware/tgcware.irix.html
)

Good luck!

[DoN. Nichols]

Post by josehill
We're out here, though a lot of the SGI hobbyist crowd also hangs out
at forums.nekochan.net.
Anyway, an older nekochan thread had at least some info. I'm not sure
if it's enough to answer your question, but it might get you started
-
http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?p=116452#p116452

Hmm ... The first two postings in that thread show things which
I want to answer, as I am sure that the Fibre Channel drives would not
work in the Indigo 2 -- unless you could find some card to fit in either
of the busses which would talk Fibre Channel. (It is *very* different
from SCSI at the hardware interface level -- though the software view of
it is pretty much the same.) And I don't really expect any EISA bus
cards to support it, so I guess that the native bus used by the Indigo 2
would have to be it -- if they exist.

But -- I don't post to web based fora. Having to do without my
preferred editor and a proper newsreader feels to me like trying to do
watch repair wearing mittens. :-)

I see that has been answered later on in the thread.

It does seem to suggest that the SCSI connector for the sleds in
the Indigo 2 is truly an SCA connector -- but the probing which I did on
the sled suggests otherwise. Something which I need to verify before
trying to plug one in directly -- perhaps by making an adaptor to accept
the Sun SPUDs -- or just stacking cardboard under a drive to get the
right height before investing the work. :-)

Post by josehill
IRIX 6.5.22 is the last version of IRIX that supports the Indigo2. In
practice, you'll want a minimum of 128 MB to run IRIX 6.5.x, but
you'll be happier with 192 MB, 256 MB or more. If you have 128 MB or
less of RAM, and you don't plan to add more, you might be happier with
IRIX 5.3 or 6.2.

Hmm ... currently 96 MB of RAM -- with four slots still empty.
Based on what I see in eBay auctions, it would be easy to bump it up to
160 MB still using all the current RAM. Not sure that I could go past
192 MB total, even by replacing the smaller ones and filling the empty
slots.

Post by josehill
Depending on exactly what you will use your Indigo2 for, a 4 GB hard
drive may be enough. You can easily fit a default IRIX 6.5.x
installation on a 4 GB drive, and you can even shoehorn 6.5.x onto a 2
GB drive. If you plan to work with images or try a bunch of software

I will probably at least try image processing in it -- but I and
pretty happy with my SB-2000 for that with a Creator-3D framebuffer.
What I really want to try is accessing audio from DATs with it. IIRC,
the SGIs were the only systems which offered direct access to audio in
the DAT drives. All others were set up to block the use for anything
other than data. I may still have to move the audio files to other
systems for the work on them. (I've already produced a pair of audio
CDs from DAT tapes using an old DAT player, a fiber optics coupling to
a Mac Mini, Audacity in the Mac Mini, and then moving the results to the
SB-2000 for final burning.

I can always hang a six-slot Multipack full of 18GB drives on
the external SCSI port for plenty of disk space at need.

Post by josehill
(lots of open source stuff in the Nekoware repository -
http://www.nekochan.net/what-is-nekowar.html ),

Now bookmarked. Thanks.

Post by josehill
you'll want to add
either a second drive or a larger drive. (If you run IRIX 6.2 or 5.3,
you can get fairly current open source software for those versions at
the tgcware repository - http://jupiterrise.com/tgcware/tgcware.irix.html
)

O.K. Also bookmarked.

Based on that, it looks as though I'll have to build my own copy
of jove (my favorite editor). Irix *does* come with a compiler, I hope?

Post by josehill
Good luck!

Thanks much,
DoN.

[Tristram Scott]

Post by DoN. Nichols
First -- is there anyone still here? A few days ago, I read everything
relating to my just acquired Indigo 2 (teal, with the R8000 CPU FWIW),
and then did a catchup.

A fine bit of hardware.

Post by DoN. Nichols
Nothing appears to have been posted since.
The internal SCSI connector to the sleds is the same physical
connector as the newer SCA drives, but (from probing from one of a pair
of sleds which I got via eBay), the power pins at least don't seem to
match the SCA pinout. Did I probe incorrectly, or is this truly the
case?

Use an adapter. These are not standard SCA.

Post by DoN. Nichols
What is the latest version of Irix which will install on a
Indigo 2 with the R8000 CPU? I do understand that it is an unusual, and
relatively rare CPU, so I don't really expect the latest Irix to still
support it.

Irix 6.5.22. Note, though, that Irix 6.5.22 comes as a set of four overlay
CDs. These are for upgrading from an ealier full release of Irix. You
will also need the set of CDs from the base installation. Mine are from
Irix 6.5.8. You need:

Irix 6.5 Foundation 1
Irix 6.5 Foundation 2
Irix 6.5 Applications

Post by DoN. Nichols
And I find that the open source OS's (linux, BSD, etc) don't
support that particular CPU (again, because it is rare).

Ignore those and use Irix.

Post by DoN. Nichols
I don't expect much performance from this (except perhaps in
floating point math), but I am interested to see what the graphics card
(framebuffer) can do. This is the triple-decker one with the 13W3, the
DIN connector for 3D goggles, and a tiny coax connector for who knows
what.

Crystaleyes 3D goggles are most excellent, but rather hard to find at a
decent price. You need the transmitter as well as the goggles.

Do you also have the video capture board, then? I can't remember details
but there was a version of the video capture board which did on the fly
jpeg compression. This would let you capture full rate video and save it
to disk even at the slow disk transfer rates of the older SCSI devices.
All of this happened on the video capture board, so it placed virtually no
load on the CPU.

Check also to see if you have texture memory for the OpenGL graphics.

Visit nekochan.net, and also http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/sgidepot/ (Ian
Mapleson's site, formerly at furturetech.blinkenlights.nl.) If you want
parts, ask Ian.

Also visit techpubs.sgi.com for a full set of manuals and documentation
online. Some good video stuff is in the Hardware Developers Handbook.

[DoN. Nichols]

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
First -- is there anyone still here? A few days ago, I read everything
relating to my just acquired Indigo 2 (teal, with the R8000 CPU FWIW),
and then did a catchup.

A fine bit of hardware.

It looks interesting.

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
Nothing appears to have been posted since.

Activity now -- all it took was questions. :-)

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
The internal SCSI connector to the sleds is the same physical
connector as the newer SCA drives, but (from probing from one of a pair
of sleds which I got via eBay), the power pins at least don't seem to
match the SCA pinout. Did I probe incorrectly, or is this truly the
case?

Use an adapter. These are not standard SCA.

O.K. That agrees with my probing of the +12V and ground pins
from the drive power connector. I've got at least one adaptor to use,
maybe two.

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
What is the latest version of Irix which will install on a
Indigo 2 with the R8000 CPU? I do understand that it is an unusual, and
relatively rare CPU, so I don't really expect the latest Irix to still
support it.

Irix 6.5.22. Note, though, that Irix 6.5.22 comes as a set of four overlay
CDs. These are for upgrading from an ealier full release of Irix. You
will also need the set of CDs from the base installation. Mine are from
Irix 6.5 Foundation 1
Irix 6.5 Foundation 2
Irix 6.5 Applications

O.K. A lot of shuffling of CDs then.

Thanks.

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
And I find that the open source OS's (linux, BSD, etc) don't
support that particular CPU (again, because it is rare).

Ignore those and use Irix.

Just as I use Solaris 10 for my Sun Blade 2000. (I do use
OpenBSD on some older Ultra-5 and Ultra-10 machines, but for other
reasons.)

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
I don't expect much performance from this (except perhaps in
floating point math), but I am interested to see what the graphics card
(framebuffer) can do. This is the triple-decker one with the 13W3, the
DIN connector for 3D goggles, and a tiny coax connector for who knows
what.

Crystaleyes 3D goggles are most excellent, but rather hard to find at a
decent price. You need the transmitter as well as the goggles.

Aha! A name of something to look for.

But a transmitter? That plugs into the DIN connector, and sends
to the goggles via an IR channel or something like that?

O.K. Yes, IR to the goggles from the computer.

And I see what you mean about the price. None on eBay (at the
moment), and the new price is a killer for a retired couple. :-)

Post by Tristram Scott
Do you also have the video capture board, then?

"hinv" identifies the graphica board as "GUI-Extreme". No hints
of a video capture board. The "Extreme" is a triple-decker card,
leaving only one free slot in the system.

Post by Tristram Scott
I can't remember details
but there was a version of the video capture board which did on the fly
jpeg compression. This would let you capture full rate video and save it
to disk even at the slow disk transfer rates of the older SCSI devices.
All of this happened on the video capture board, so it placed virtually no
load on the CPU.

Interesting. I don't think that I need video capture, but who
knows. I've seen the board offered on eBay when searching for Indigo 2
hardware.

Post by Tristram Scott
Check also to see if you have texture memory for the OpenGL graphics.

How would I tell? I don't see anything suggesting that in the
output from "hinv". And I don't yet have an OS to pass the question to.

Post by Tristram Scott
Visit nekochan.net, and also http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/sgidepot/ (Ian
Mapleson's site, formerly at furturetech.blinkenlights.nl.) If you want
parts, ask Ian.

All bookmarked.

I may need a genuine SGI supplied DAT drive to access the audio
tapes.

Post by Tristram Scott
Also visit techpubs.sgi.com for a full set of manuals and documentation
online. Some good video stuff is in the Hardware Developers Handbook.

Bookmarked too. The _Hardware Developers Handbook_ sounds like
my kind of publication. :-)

Thanks,
DoN.

[Joerg Behrens]

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
First -- is there anyone still here? A few days ago, I read everything
relating to my just acquired Indigo 2 (teal, with the R8000 CPU FWIW),
and then did a catchup.

A fine bit of hardware.

It looks interesting.

Its a dog slow hardware. For standard tasks the R10k Indigo2 is the
better choice because its "usable" for a hobbiest :).

The last time i upgraded my old Power Indigo2 to .22 i keep notice that
the prereq tools are br0ken. So be sure that you have working .17/.18
around.

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
Nothing appears to have been posted since.

Activity now -- all it took was questions. :-)

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
The internal SCSI connector to the sleds is the same physical
connector as the newer SCA drives, but (from probing from one of a pair
of sleds which I got via eBay), the power pins at least don't seem to
match the SCA pinout. Did I probe incorrectly, or is this truly the
case?

Use an adapter. These are not standard SCA.

O.K. That agrees with my probing of the +12V and ground pins
from the drive power connector. I've got at least one adaptor to use,
maybe two.

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
What is the latest version of Irix which will install on a
Indigo 2 with the R8000 CPU? I do understand that it is an unusual, and
relatively rare CPU, so I don't really expect the latest Irix to still
support it.

Irix 6.5.22. Note, though, that Irix 6.5.22 comes as a set of four overlay
CDs. These are for upgrading from an ealier full release of Irix. You
will also need the set of CDs from the base installation. Mine are from
Irix 6.5 Foundation 1
Irix 6.5 Foundation 2
Irix 6.5 Applications

O.K. A lot of shuffling of CDs then.

Copy all disks to your Install Server (Linux/*BSD/IRIX) and do a network
installation other way do like a DJ!

Regards
Joerg

[Steven Hirsch]

Post by Joerg Behrens

Post by DoN. Nichols
O.K. A lot of shuffling of CDs then.

Copy all disks to your Install Server (Linux/*BSD/IRIX) and do a network
installation other way do like a DJ!

Agreed. Much, much simpler.

FYI: There's a well-known problem with the SGI installer scripts not running
correctly under anything but ksh. I wrote a little shim library that preloads
when the client machine rsh's into the install server. It intercepts all
references to 'sh' at execve() time and redirects to /bin/ksh. Works like a
charm and avoids having to make /bin/sh a link to /bin/ksh which can and will
hose a lot of the low-level system scripts.

Contact me privately if you need this.

Steve

[DoN. Nichols]

Post by Joerg Behrens

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
First -- is there anyone still here? A few days ago, I read everything
relating to my just acquired Indigo 2 (teal, with the R8000 CPU FWIW),
and then did a catchup.

A fine bit of hardware.

It looks interesting.

Its a dog slow hardware. For standard tasks the R10k Indigo2 is the
better choice because its "usable" for a hobbiest :).

Yes -- but the R8000 Indigo 2 was *free* -- and I feel that I
must at least get it going, even if I move on to something else later.

Post by Joerg Behrens
The last time i upgraded my old Power Indigo2 to .22 i keep notice that
the prereq tools are br0ken. So be sure that you have working .17/.18
around.

As it turns out, I have available to me only 5.2 and 6.2

Tying to install 6.2, I hit the problem with a disk which is not
formatted and partitioned in the SGI format. After reading a couple of
web-based sets of instructions, I finally got as far as (for the R8000)

boot -f dksc(1,3,8)sash64

but the following:

boot -f dksc(1,3,7)stand/fx.64 --x

does not seem to work. Is it called something else in 6.2? Do I need
to fall back to 5.2 and see what is there?

[ ... ]

Post by Joerg Behrens

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
The internal SCSI connector to the sleds is the same physical
connector as the newer SCA drives, but (from probing from one of a pair
of sleds which I got via eBay), the power pins at least don't seem to
match the SCA pinout. Did I probe incorrectly, or is this truly the
case?

Use an adapter. These are not standard SCA.

Got that running now -- 18 GB SCA drive.

Post by Joerg Behrens

Post by DoN. Nichols
O.K. That agrees with my probing of the +12V and ground pins
from the drive power connector. I've got at least one adaptor to use,
maybe two.

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
What is the latest version of Irix which will install on a
Indigo 2 with the R8000 CPU? I do understand that it is an unusual, and
relatively rare CPU, so I don't really expect the latest Irix to still
support it.

Irix 6.5.22. Note, though, that Irix 6.5.22 comes as a set of four overlay
CDs. These are for upgrading from an ealier full release of Irix. You
will also need the set of CDs from the base installation. Mine are from
Irix 6.5 Foundation 1
Irix 6.5 Foundation 2
Irix 6.5 Applications

O.K. A lot of shuffling of CDs then.

Copy all disks to your Install Server (Linux/*BSD/IRIX) and do a network
installation other way do like a DJ!

Hmm ... a possibility. Are all disks mountable as HSFS? With
a partition 8, I'm not sure about that, and I know that my Solaris
systems would not like it at all. The only things which I see with a
partition 8 are ones which have been re-partitioned by a RAID package.

I'm not running anything linux or IRIX, though I do have a few
OpenBSD systems running, and they will take partition numbers up to 15.

Is the R8000 different enough in booting behaviour so I will
need a different set of CD-ROMs?

Sorry to be a pest -- Solaris/SunOs and OpenBSD I know well, but
IRIX is a different beast for me.

Thanks,
DoN.

[josehill]

Assuming that your disk IDs are correct, try the following as one
command line:
boot -f dksc(1,3,8)sash64 dksc(1,3,7)stand/fx.64 --x

Check out Ian's 6.2 installation instructions at
http://futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/disksfiles.html#INSTOS

-JH

        boot -f dksc(1,3,8)sash64
        boot -f dksc(1,3,7)stand/fx.64 --x
does not seem to work.  Is it called something else in 6.2?  Do I need
to fall back to 5.2 and see what is there?

[DoN. Nichols]

Post by josehill
Assuming that your disk IDs are correct,

They were -- I was using information form "hinv" adapted
according to the blinnkenlights pages.

Post by josehill
try the following as one
boot -f dksc(1,3,8)sash64 dksc(1,3,7)stand/fx.64 --x

That was what i was trying -- after eliminating the other form.
I could use the first part to get to the sash, but the second failed,
even when I did it in two stages and left out the second '-' on the
option to fx.64.

It turns out that the fx.64 portion of the CD-ROM was corrupted
(scratched, I guess), and I was lucky enough to have a second (still
sealed) set, so I was able to get past that.

Post by josehill
Check out Ian's 6.2 installation instructions at
http://futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/disksfiles.html#INSTOS

I was working from that very bit of information -- printed out
to have convenient to the machine. The instructions were good, the
CD-ROM wasn't. :-) I had done quite a bit of web searching before coming
on here to ask questions.

I've just completed a second installation -- this time on a 36
GB SCA -- plenty of elbow room for 6.2. The first one was on an 18 GB
SCA drive.

Thanks,
DoN.

[Tristram Scott]

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by Joerg Behrens
Copy all disks to your Install Server (Linux/*BSD/IRIX) and do a network
installation other way do like a DJ!

Hmm ... a possibility. Are all disks mountable as HSFS? With
a partition 8, I'm not sure about that, and I know that my Solaris
systems would not like it at all. The only things which I see with a
partition 8 are ones which have been re-partitioned by a RAID package.

It doesn't have to be an Irix server, that just makes life a bit simpler.
The Indigo 2 does the standard bootp/tftp stuff. I always had a spare
piece of Irix hardware around, so used the methods specified in the Irix
documentation, but I am sure i have seen reference to people doing this
from Linux servers. A bit of google will probably get you there.

That said, for a first time install, I would go with CDs.

[josehill]

By the way, one of the Nekochan members built a NetBSD-based VMware
virtual machine that is configured to work as an IRIX network
installation server. Much easier than trying to create an installation
server from scratch!

To run the virtual machine, you'll need either the free VMware Player
for Linux and Windows, the commercial VMware Fusion for Mac, or the
commercial VMware Workstation for Linux/Windows.

Download the VM at http://zachrisson.net/DINA/
Discussion at http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16718687

[DoN. Nichols]

Post by josehill
By the way, one of the Nekochan members built a NetBSD-based VMware
virtual machine that is configured to work as an IRIX network
installation server. Much easier than trying to create an installation
server from scratch!

Interesting.

Post by josehill
To run the virtual machine, you'll need either the free VMware Player
for Linux and Windows, the commercial VMware Fusion for Mac, or the
commercial VMware Workstation for Linux/Windows.

Hmm ... maybe the Mac version. I don't use Windows for anything
requiring trust, and I have no current linux systems.

Post by josehill
Download the VM at http://zachrisson.net/DINA/
Discussion at http://forums.nekochan.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16718687

Thanks,
DoN.

[DoN. Nichols]

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by Joerg Behrens
Copy all disks to your Install Server (Linux/*BSD/IRIX) and do a network
installation other way do like a DJ!

Hmm ... a possibility. Are all disks mountable as HSFS? With
a partition 8, I'm not sure about that, and I know that my Solaris
systems would not like it at all. The only things which I see with a
partition 8 are ones which have been re-partitioned by a RAID package.

It doesn't have to be an Irix server, that just makes life a bit simpler.
The Indigo 2 does the standard bootp/tftp stuff. I always had a spare
piece of Irix hardware around, so used the methods specified in the Irix
documentation,

Just as I always had (and have) spare Suns around.

Post by Tristram Scott
but I am sure i have seen reference to people doing this
from Linux servers. A bit of google will probably get you there.

Probably not -- unless I can convince OpenBSD to mount the SGI
CDs. Sun certainly won't, and I don't have any linux systems around at
present.

Post by Tristram Scott
That said, for a first time install, I would go with CDs.

As I did -- with only two CDs to deal with for 6.2.

Thanks,
DoN.

[Tristram Scott]

[snip]

Post by DoN. Nichols
O.K. A lot of shuffling of CDs then.

Yes. They are not all that easy to come by either.

Post by DoN. Nichols
"hinv" identifies the graphica board as "GUI-Extreme". No hints
of a video capture board. The "Extreme" is a triple-decker card,
leaving only one free slot in the system.

That's quite good. Check Ian Mapleson's site for comparisons of various
boards.

Post by DoN. Nichols
Interesting. I don't think that I need video capture, but who
knows. I've seen the board offered on eBay when searching for Indigo 2
hardware.

You need to make sure that the capture board will fit with your graphics
card. Again, check with Ian.

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by Tristram Scott
Check also to see if you have texture memory for the OpenGL graphics.

How would I tell? I don't see anything suggesting that in the
output from "hinv". And I don't yet have an OS to pass the question to.

I think the texture memory shows up as TRAM under hinv. Or maybe you need
to use gfxinfo. I don't have one of these machines any more to check.

Post by DoN. Nichols
I may need a genuine SGI supplied DAT drive to access the audio
tapes.

I have one on my fuel which I no longer use. It wouldn't cost you much,
apart from shipping from UK.

[DoN. Nichols]

Post by Tristram Scott
[snip]

Post by DoN. Nichols
O.K. A lot of shuffling of CDs then.

Yes. They are not all that easy to come by either.

I was only able to get 5.2 and 6.2 -- plus a few others
including the development set for at least one of those.

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
"hinv" identifies the graphica board as "GUI-Extreme". No hints
of a video capture board. The "Extreme" is a triple-decker card,
leaving only one free slot in the system.

That's quite good. Check Ian Mapleson's site for comparisons of various
boards.

O.K.

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
Interesting. I don't think that I need video capture, but who
knows. I've seen the board offered on eBay when searching for Indigo 2
hardware.

You need to make sure that the capture board will fit with your graphics
card. Again, check with Ian.

O.K. Thanks.

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by Tristram Scott
Check also to see if you have texture memory for the OpenGL graphics.

How would I tell? I don't see anything suggesting that in the
output from "hinv". And I don't yet have an OS to pass the question to.

I think the texture memory shows up as TRAM under hinv. Or maybe you need
to use gfxinfo. I don't have one of these machines any more to check.

Hmm ... I didn't see a TRAM under "hinv". is "gfxinfo" another
ROM level command, or does it require a booted IRIX?

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
I may need a genuine SGI supplied DAT drive to access the audio
tapes.

I have one on my fuel which I no longer use. It wouldn't cost you much,
apart from shipping from UK.

Hmm ... that sounds good to me. Once we settle on a cost, and a
way to exchange money, and see what the shipping would be.

Thanks,
DoN.

[Joerg Behrens]

Post by DoN. Nichols
First -- is there anyone still here? A few days ago, I read everything
relating to my just acquired Indigo 2 (teal, with the R8000 CPU FWIW),
and then did a catchup.
Nothing appears to have been posted since.
The internal SCSI connector to the sleds is the same physical
connector as the newer SCA drives, but (from probing from one of a pair
of sleds which I got via eBay), the power pins at least don't seem to
match the SCA pinout. Did I probe incorrectly, or is this truly the
case?

You mix something up.. the connectors looks similar to modern SCA(2) but
they're not SCA. The only way to connect something is to have a
drivesled which comes with the connector and a SCSI2 50pin adapter for
SCSI drives.

There is enough space to place a modern SCA2 drive with an adapter
SCA2<->SCSI2 50pin on the sled.

Regards
Joerg

[DoN. Nichols]

[ ... ]

Post by Joerg Behrens

Post by DoN. Nichols
The internal SCSI connector to the sleds is the same physical
connector as the newer SCA drives, but (from probing from one of a pair
of sleds which I got via eBay), the power pins at least don't seem to
match the SCA pinout. Did I probe incorrectly, or is this truly the
case?

You mix something up.. the connectors looks similar to modern SCA(2) but
they're not SCA. The only way to connect something is to have a
drivesled which comes with the connector and a SCSI2 50pin adapter for
SCSI drives.

That was what I had figured ahead of time, and confirmed by
tracing the connections of the +12V and ground pins from the drive power
connector to the SCA pins. I do have a listing of the standard SCA pins
in the Sun _Field Engineer's Handbook_.

I was hoping to get word that I had mis-probed and that I should
try again, but you (and some other sources) have confirmed that I was
right to start with.

Post by Joerg Behrens
There is enough space to place a modern SCA2 drive with an adapter
SCA2<->SCSI2 50pin on the sled.

What I plan to do.

I guess that I could make a direct converter if I had the crimp
tools for the connectors used for SCA -- and a full pinout of the SGI
use of the same connector -- but I don't, so it is the adaptor (bridge
card) which will have to do the job.

Thanks much,
DoN.

[Tristram Scott]

Post by DoN. Nichols
I guess that I could make a direct converter if I had the crimp
tools for the connectors used for SCA -- and a full pinout of the SGI
use of the same connector -- but I don't, so it is the adaptor (bridge
card) which will have to do the job.

I think the pinouts are in the Indigo 2 Owners guide, on techpubs.sgi.com.

That said, I doubt there is advantage in rolling your own in this case.

Stick in a disk big enough for Irix, then have it nfs mount your storage
space from whichever Sun server is you friend.

You might want to track down a faster ethernet card. The standard one is
only 10 Mbps, but it is possible to put in a 100 Mbps card.

[DoN. Nichols]

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols
I guess that I could make a direct converter if I had the crimp
tools for the connectors used for SCA -- and a full pinout of the SGI
use of the same connector -- but I don't, so it is the adaptor (bridge
card) which will have to do the job.

I think the pinouts are in the Indigo 2 Owners guide, on techpubs.sgi.com.

Not in the copy which I downloaded and printed. Lots of other
pinouts, but not the internal SCSI one, just the 50-pin external SCSI
which is the same that Sun used back then.

Post by Tristram Scott
That said, I doubt there is advantage in rolling your own in this case.

Other than a possible non-availability of the adaptor, and I
have one installed already, so there should be no problem getting
another.

Post by Tristram Scott
Stick in a disk big enough for Irix, then have it nfs mount your storage
space from whichever Sun server is you friend.

Which would be a Sun Fire 280R running a couple of ZFS RAID
arrays. :-)

Post by Tristram Scott
You might want to track down a faster ethernet card. The standard one is
only 10 Mbps, but it is possible to put in a 100 Mbps card.

O.K. One slot which could be used for that. Would that be an
EISA card, or SGI's own bus? I though that EISA was old enough to not
be likely to give me more than 10BaseT.

Thanks,
DoN.

[Tristram Scott]

[snip]

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by Tristram Scott
Stick in a disk big enough for Irix, then have it nfs mount your storage
space from whichever Sun server is you friend.

Which would be a Sun Fire 280R running a couple of ZFS RAID
arrays. :-)

Excellent. I have one of those.

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by Tristram Scott
You might want to track down a faster ethernet card. The standard one is
only 10 Mbps, but it is possible to put in a 100 Mbps card.

O.K. One slot which could be used for that. Would that be an
EISA card, or SGI's own bus? I though that EISA was old enough to not
be likely to give me more than 10BaseT.

You can use an EISA 3Com 3c597.

http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/fastether.html

[DoN. Nichols]

Post by Tristram Scott
[snip]

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by Tristram Scott
Stick in a disk big enough for Irix, then have it nfs mount your storage
space from whichever Sun server is you friend.

Which would be a Sun Fire 280R running a couple of ZFS RAID
arrays. :-)

Excellent. I have one of those.

Nice machines -- other than being loud. Some of these days I'll
pick up a couple more of the 1.2 GHz CPUs to upgrade mine form the 900
MHz ones. But overall, as a server, it works well for me.

Post by Tristram Scott

Post by DoN. Nichols

Post by Tristram Scott
You might want to track down a faster ethernet card. The standard one is
only 10 Mbps, but it is possible to put in a 100 Mbps card.

O.K. One slot which could be used for that. Would that be an
EISA card, or SGI's own bus? I though that EISA was old enough to not
be likely to give me more than 10BaseT.

You can use an EISA 3Com 3c597.

That sounds good.

Post by Tristram Scott
http://www.futuretech.blinkenlights.nl/fastether.html

Hmm ... they want it in the bottom EISA slot, and my framebuffer
(GUI-Extreme) takes up the bottom three slots. Will the graphics card
work moved up to the top three slots? (I don't have the cover off the
machine to see whether it is possible at the moment.

Thanks,
DoN.